tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post4001381518871147196..comments2024-03-01T03:51:38.081-05:00Comments on Allergic to Bull: Christina H. Vents on Anti-Asian American RacismA.W.http://www.blogger.com/profile/10876021589516844048noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-4304391678010371922012-02-29T16:43:09.603-05:002012-02-29T16:43:09.603-05:00Ken
> I'm under the impression that each c...Ken<br /><br />> I'm under the impression that each country should be able to self-rule in whatever manner the majority of people see fit.<br /><br />Ah, so you believe that non-democracy is okay so long as it is chosen democratically.<br /><br />You lack of logic makes my head hurt sometimes.<br /><br />By the way, how often does this election to determine whether there would be elections occur? Is it like a once-only thing where then from then on a royal family can rule indefinitely. Or is it more like once every 30 years?<br /><br />> Anyway, an imam merely advocating the idea doesn't make a threat to America.<br /><br />He doesn’t have to be a threat to America to make it reasonable to denounce him and his whole project.<br /><br />> I did. It just lead to another post here, and no link to what Olbermann *actually* said.<br /><br />First, Ken, the post was fisking him and thus quoting him repeatedly. And it had a link to a full transcript. You just got caught criticizing lazily again.<br /><br />> Documented examples? Or just theorizing? Right, they're all plants.<br /><br />Didn’t say they all were, but the burden is on you to prove they are really a part of it.<br /><br />> You have seen evidence, but you dismiss it out of hand, in part because you don't see colorblindness as the new racism.<br /><br />Right, so if you don’t pay attention to race, you are a raaaaaacist. And slavery is freedom, too.A.W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10876021589516844048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-51624674208010735282012-02-29T16:15:30.666-05:002012-02-29T16:15:30.666-05:00>> Um, isn’t it bad enough to advocate for i...>> Um, isn’t it bad enough to advocate for it [Islamic theocracy] ANYWHERE? Or are you under the impression that Iranians don’t deserve democracy?<br /><br />I'm under the impression that each country should be able to self-rule in whatever manner the majority of people see fit. I PERSONALLY wouldn't want to live under a theocracy (Islamic, Christian or any other stipe), but if the people of a nation choose otherwise, then what's wrong with that? Some of the religious sects that came to America in the 17th century wanted to start theocracies, too. Anyway, an imam merely advocating the idea doesn't make a threat to America.<br /><br />>> Then get off your butt and follow the links.<br /><br />I did. It just lead to another post here, and no link to what Olbermann *actually* said.<br /><br />>> By the way, for bonus points I like how the study uses the dehumanizing term “blacks” instead of black people. It is as though in the authors’ minds a black person is literally nothing but a color, so it’s not even necessary to call them “black people.”<br /><br />That's ridiculous. It's shorthand; the "people" is superfluous, because everyone understands what is being talked about. Your post talks about Germans and Italians and Japanese -- you don't talk about German PEOPLE and Italian PEOPLE and Japanese PEOPLE.<br /><br />>> There were many documented examples of liberals putting up signs like that in an effort to defame the tea party.<br /><br />Documented examples? Or just theorizing? Right, <a href="http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-12-19/news/30535938_1_facebook-profile-tea-party-president-obama" rel="nofollow">they're all plants</a>.<br /><br />>> I won't say that there are no racist tea partiers. But i have seen no evidence that they are less likely to be a racist than, say, an MSNBC host.<br /><br />You have seen evidence, but you dismiss it out of hand, in part because you don't see <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Racism-without-Racists-Color-Blind-Persistence/dp/0742516334" rel="nofollow">colorblindness</a> as the <a href="http://www.iexaminer.org/editorial/color-blindness-racism/" rel="nofollow">new racism</a>.Ken Ashfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00288895770874372009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-90242256158666500582012-02-29T12:52:49.505-05:002012-02-29T12:52:49.505-05:00Ken
> Yeah, well, you have to extrapolate and ...Ken<br /><br />> Yeah, well, you have to extrapolate and assume he was calling for an Islamic theocracy HERE<br /><br />Um, isn’t it bad enough to advocate for it ANYWHERE? Or are you under the impression that Iranians don’t deserve democracy? Iran is not equal to America, hence why it is valid to criticize Iran, but all persons are born equal with an equal right to freedom and democracy, even if they aren’t born here.<br /><br />> I don't know what Keith Olbermann actually said<br /><br />Then get off your butt and follow the links.<br /><br />> Well, the opposition to ANY president always tries to find a way to save the country from the "disaster" of the one holding office.<br /><br />Which only tends to prove my point.<br /><br />> Apparently, you didn't read the study that closely. (For starters, it wasn't a study about attitudes towards racism, but attitudes toward race)<br /><br />Actually, you need to. Read the questions. Its stuff like: “Generations of slavery and discrimination have created conditions that make it difficult for blacks to work their way out of the lower class.” That isn’t a question about race but about the effect of racial discrimination. On race it follows a similar course. You simply took their summary phrase as gospel, as opposed to looking at what the data actually shows.<br /><br />By the way, for bonus points I like how the study uses the dehumanizing term “blacks” instead of black people. It is as though in the authors’ minds a black person is literally nothing but a color, so it’s not even necessary to call them “black people.”<br /><br />But you can't evade what it says, or some of the more overt examples of racism that, while not necessarily attaching to EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of the tea party, tend to permeate the tea party generally.<br /><br />Actually, you can’t establish that ANY of them were actual tea party members. There were many documented examples of liberals putting up signs like that in an effort to defame the tea party. At the same time, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews DEFINITELY said racist things, and kept their jobs, but somehow that doesn’t reflect on the entire left.<br /><br />I won't say that there are no racist tea partiers. But i have seen no evidence that they are less likely to be a racist than, say, an MSNBC host.A.W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10876021589516844048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-56563655928862964312012-02-29T12:30:42.290-05:002012-02-29T12:30:42.290-05:00>>...when it was led by an imam who openly a...>>...when it was led by an imam who openly advocated for Islamic theocracy and wanted to rate nations for their compliance with Sharia<br /><br />Yeah, well, you have to extrapolate and assume he was calling for an Islamic theocracy HERE. He wasn't; in fact, he specifically said he wasn't.<br /><br />>> Was it hyperbole when he looked on a multi-ethnic tea party crowd and saw only white people? Or to argue literally that you can judge a group’s racism by the color of their skin?<br /><br />I don't know what Keith Olbermann actually said, but it is undeniable that the tea-party racial makeup did not correspond to the national demographic. And that does MEAN something.<br /><br />>> Birtherism has always been, imho, about the hope of finding a way to save us from the disaster of the Obama presidency, nothing more.<br /><br />Well, the opposition to ANY president always tries to find a way to save the country from the "disaster" of the one holding office. But birtherism is (yes, present tense -- it's still around) a laughable attempt to carry on with the meme, or wishful thought, that the president isn't actually the president.<br /><br />>> And indeed your study doesn't prove that tea partiers are racist, just that they believe that racism is less of a factor than you do and indeed might be contaminated by the very racial brow-beating I mentioned in the post...<br /><br />Apparently, you didn't read the study that closely. (For starters, it wasn't a study about attitudes towards racism, but attitudes toward race). But you can't evade what it says, or some of the more overt <a href="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z152/UCLABruinKid/ProtestSigns.jpg" rel="nofollow">examples of racism</a> that, while not necessarily attaching to EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of the tea party, tend to permeate the tea party generally.Ken Ashfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00288895770874372009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-70118683962792373192012-02-29T11:07:25.051-05:002012-02-29T11:07:25.051-05:00Ken
> Too bad that argument didn't fly wit...Ken<br /><br />> Too bad that argument didn't fly with the tea partiers and their ilk when it came to the Ground Zero mosque<br /><br />I am sure some people stereotyped the whole thing, but when it was led by an imam who openly advocated for Islamic theocracy and wanted to rate nations for their compliance with Sharia… http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/about-that-moderate-ground-zero-imam.html<br /><br />> Keith Olbermann may be engaging in hyperbole (clearly, literally "everyone" in the Tea Party isn't racist),<br /><br />Was it hyperbole when he looked on a multi-ethnic tea party crowd and saw only white people? Or to argue literally that you can judge a group’s racism by the color of their skin?<br /><br />Its funny how you walk right past those blatant examples of racism, to hallucinate one about the right or the tea party in 5… 4… 3… 2… 1…<br /><br />> But Tea Partiers DO operate on a nexus of class and race, and there are undercurrents of racism everywhere, most notably in birtherism with its not-so-subtle message that Obama isn't one of "us" (He's not! He's a Kenyan!)<br /><br />And thus you illustrate my point. Has it ever occurred to you to look for a non-racial reason for this. Birtherism has always been, imho, about the hope of finding a way to save us from the disaster of the Obama presidency, nothing more.<br /><br />Also your theory that this is about prejudice is kind of undermined by the fact that once he released that long-form birth certificate, birtherism pretty much died. It turns out that all he actually had to do was actually, you know, present the evidence.<br /><br />And please, do not bother to cite lame faux scientific study #20123. These things are always sucky examples of science that have no purpose but to give guys like you a talking point. And indeed your study doesn't prove that tea partiers are racist, just that they believe that racism is less of a factor than you do and indeed might be contaminated by the very racial brow-beating I mentioned in the post. They might be downplaying the effect of race because they are sick of hearing that opposing socialized medicine is racism or something.A.W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10876021589516844048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044318176622758692.post-4039191845345754152012-02-29T10:49:43.260-05:002012-02-29T10:49:43.260-05:00>> So the solution isn’t to stop denouncing ...>> So the solution isn’t to stop denouncing China, North Korea, or even Iran, but to combat the thinking in too many people that assumes these kinds of ethnic groups have more loyalty to a foreign country than America--even when they are apparently fleeing that country's oppression.<br /><br />Too bad that argument didn't fly with the tea partiers and their ilk when it came to the <a href="http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011400,00.html" rel="nofollow">Ground Zero mosque</a><br /><br />*************<br /><br />Look, the right has a racism problem, and it is a real problem, not a perceived one. Keith Olbermann may be engaging in hyperbole (clearly, literally "everyone" in the Tea Party isn't racist), but he does hit upon an undeniable racially-tinged sentiment that possesses many on the right.<br /><br />To be sure, the racism at issue isn't the racism of decades ago, complete with epithets and white hoods and burning crosses. It's quite easy for racists to avoid appearing that way. <br /><br />But Tea Partiers DO operate on a nexus of class and race, and there are undercurrents of racism everywhere, most notably in birtherism with its not-so-subtle message that Obama isn't one of "us" (He's not! He's a Kenyan!)<br /><br />It's not a huge surprise that among whites who approve of the Tea Party, their views toward blacks is -- shall we say -- <a href="http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/mssrp_table.pdf" rel="nofollow">more harsh</a> (PDF) than whites who oppose the tea party or even those who are middle of the road. <br /><br />Is that "racism" (or, as some call it, "the new racism")? I guess one can quibble about semantics. But clearly, many on the right are out of the mainstream when it comes to fundamental beliefs about race, and out of the mainstream on the subject of attitudes toward minorities, and that cannot be ignored.Ken Ashfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00288895770874372009noreply@blogger.com