Is Chris Dorner Alive or Dead? (Updated!)

Update: A lot more about events leading up to the firefight, and a tragic detail about the sheriff’s deputy who lost his life tonight.

I was busy tonight, missing out on the State of the Union and apparently the breaking story that the Police believed that they had Dorner trapped in a cabin when the place went up in flames.

Look, I have followed breaking news stories before, and a degree of caution is always wise.  I remember when those miners were trapped in West Virginia, and initial reports were all but one of the miners were rescued.  The truth was all but one died, which left the families going from sudden hope, to crushing despair.  And I remember just after the massacre where Gabby Giffords was wounded, that initially she was reported dead, and if memory serves, Judge Roll was reported to be in all sorts of states between life and death until people sorted things out and learned he died heroically.  And for that matter, I remember the wrong Lamza being identified as the killer in Newtown, resulting in a man who lost his mother that day getting a lot of ugliness on the internet.  You always have to be careful in these things.

So tonight we learn there was some kind of showdown at a cabin in the woods near Big Bear Lake.  I am going to add a few stories to this as updates, so be sure to check below, but the big important thing is that the cabin he was in caught fire and he wasn’t seen leaving.  Earlier reports said his body was recovered, but the LAPD spokesman said it was not true, but this doesn’t mean that Dorner is alive.  From the Blaze (as of this hour):

An LAPD spokesman says no body has been pulled from the cabin in Big Bear, Calif. and any reports — like the Associated Press story below — are “not true.” The spokesman said the fire at the cabin is still too hot to search.

I have heard some suggestion that part of the problem is the concern that some of the ammo might explode.  It’s not very well verified, but it is such a reasonable possibility…  it seems likely.  Indeed, just as I wrote that last line, I got a “breaking news” email from CNN stating that Cindy Bachman, a spokesman for the LAPD said that, “They believe that there is a body in there, but it is not safe to go inside.”  Which somewhat conforms with that rumor, but it still isn’t sourced very well.

However, there is no truth to the rumor that this is taking longer because it takes a while for the police to drink enough water to p*ss on Dorner’s corpse.

By the way, I will note that while I do not celebrate the deaths of mere political enemies and the like, I never hesitate to celebrate the death of truly evil men, such as dictators, terrorists and truly heinous murderers.  I did celebrate a little on twitter tonight, but I will hold back until it is confirmed that he is dead.

And keep checking back and scrolling down for updates.

Update: From the LA Times blog, we learn about events leading up to the showdown.  The caution that one should be concerned about the fluid nature of this story applies, but for what it is worth:

Before the shootout, Christopher Dorner allegedly broke into a cabin days ago in the San Bernardino Mountains, tied up the couple inside and held them hostage until he left Tuesday morning, a source said.

Then Dorner was allegedly spotted by state Fish and Wildlife officers in a white pickup truck, the source said. When they attempted to stop him, Dorner crashed the truck during a chase and exchanged gunfire with the officers as he fled into another cabin, where he was quickly surrounded by San Bernardino County sheriff’s deputies, the source said.

Dorner is now surrounded by police inside a Big Bear area cabin after allegedly getting into a gun battle that left two San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputies wounded.

The source said one deputy was hit as Dorner fired out of the cabin and a second was injured when Dorner exited the back of the cabin, deployed a smoke bomb and opened fire again in an apparent attempt to flee. Dorner was driven back inside the cabin, the source said.

The extent of the deputies’ injuries was unknown. There was initial confusion about where a helicopter should land to evacuate the injured officers. Deputies used their own smoke bombs to provide enough cover to carry the wounded to a waiting pickup truck that took them to the waiting helicopter.

Read the whole thing.  Incidentally, I did a lot of driving tonight—I felt like I had been to Timbuktu and back—and on the local news radio station, WTOP they reported that one of the deputies had died.  This was verified by this account:

LAPD Cmdr. Andy Smith says that despite earlier reports, Christopher Dorner’s body has not been recovered from a burned out cabin where he was reportedly holed up during a deadly shootout with authorities earlier today.

Cindy Bachman of the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department says authorities have not yet been able to enter the cabin, but when they do, they believe they will find a body inside.

Dorner, who allegedly shot and killed his fourth victim — a San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy — was barricaded inside a Seven Oaks residence for several hours Tuesday afternoon. He is also accused of shooting a second deputy, who was undergoing surgery after being airlifted to Loma Linda University Medical Center.

The home, ironically, is located near the Sheriff’s outpost that was set up earlier this week as part of the search for him.

CBS2′s Carter Evans reported that tear gas was fired into the house before the fire broke out. A single shot was also heard at that time, according to CBS2′s Juan Fernandez.

During a news conference earlier in the day, LAPD Cmdr. Andy Smith urged Dorner to surrender.

“Enough is enough. It’s time to turn yourself in. End the bloodshed,” said Smith, who also asked that media helicopters pull out of the area, as Dorner likely had access to a television. The San Bernardino District Attorney’s Office also asked that reporters in the area to refrain from tweeting during the standoff, but later removed the request from Twitter.

The sheriff has asked all members of the press to stop tweeting immediately. It is hindering officer safety. #Dorner—

SB District Attorney (@sbcountyda) February 12, 2013

Read the whole thing.  I attempted to find that tweet, to no avail.  I would suspect that it has been deleted.  Does this suggest Dorner had twitter access?  That maybe he has been watching all the idiots on twitter supporting him?  Who knows?  How else would it be the case that tweeting might endanger the police?

On top of all that, this news site has a transcript and audio from the shootout, one of the reporters being caught in the middle of it:

It’s not illuminating, but... yike.

Finally, an additional sad note to add to tonight’s news.  Via Fire Andrea Mitchell, we learn of this tweet from reporter Gigi Graciette:

FOX 11 reporter @cgfox11 knows the officer who was killed. Says his wife just had a baby. Heartbreaking. #RIP @myfoxla #Dorner
— Gigi Graciette (@GigiGraciette) February 12, 2013

And later she adds this detail:

@cgfox11 says SB County Sheriff Deputy killed today - whom she knows personally - is described as 'cop's cop'; good guy who just had a baby
— Gigi Graciette (@GigiGraciette) February 13, 2013

I checked the account she was referring to, but no more details.  She seems to be holding things back out of respect for the family.  But it’s apparent that this is the deputy who died tonight is the one who just recently welcomed a new baby into this world.  If Dorner isn’t dead, and assuming that it doesn’t turn out that by some miracle he is innocent, I hope the people of California put him to death.

But really I am hoping he was killed in the shootout.

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My wife and I have lost our jobs due to the harassment of convicted terrorist Brett Kimberlin, including an attempt to get us killed and to frame me for a crime carrying a sentence of up to ten years.  I know that claim sounds fantastic, but if you read starting here, you will see absolute proof of these claims using documentary and video evidence.  If you would like to help in the fight to hold Mr. Kimberlin accountable, please hit the Blogger’s Defense Team button on the right.  And thank you.

Follow me at Twitter @aaronworthing, mostly for snark and site updates.  And you can purchase my book (or borrow it for free if you have Amazon Prime), Archangel: A Novel of Alternate, Recent History here.  And you can read a little more about my novel, here.

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Disclaimer:

I have accused some people, particularly Brett Kimberlin, of reprehensible conduct.  In some cases, the conduct is even criminal.  In all cases, the only justice I want is through the appropriate legal process—such as the criminal justice system.  I do not want to see vigilante violence against any person or any threat of such violence.  This kind of conduct is not only morally wrong, but it is counter-productive.

In the particular case of Brett Kimberlin, I do not want you to even contact him.  Do not call him.  Do not write him a letter.  Do not write him an email.  Do not text-message him.  Do not engage in any kind of directed communication.  I say this in part because under Maryland law, that can quickly become harassment and I don’t want that to happen to him.

And for that matter, don’t go on his property.  Don’t sneak around and try to photograph him.  Frankly try not to even be within his field of vision.  Your behavior could quickly cross the line into harassment in that way too (not to mention trespass and other concerns).

And do not contact his organizations, either.  And most of all, leave his family alone.

The only exception to all that is that if you are reporting on this, there is of course nothing wrong with contacting him for things like his official response to any stories you might report.  And even then if he tells you to stop contacting him, obey that request.  That this is a key element in making out a harassment claim under Maryland law—that a person asks you to stop and you refuse.

And let me say something else.  In my heart of hearts, I don’t believe that any person supporting me has done any of the above.  But if any of you have, stop it, and if you haven’t don’t start.